Curse

maraxusofk · Mar 05, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Iway got nerfed bad.
Dust trap, mantra of resolve-trapper nerf
Order of vamp-major nec nerf
Iway, evicerate-warrior nerf

Not that most of the easily abusable moves are nerfed, does iway take skill to run? I saw a dramtically decreased amount of iway grouops after the nerf. Is it because iway now needs to coordinate its evicerate and atks instead of randomly whacking things like a moron that some people shy away? Is it that trappers cant just trap whenever they want cuz mantra runs thru their eneregy much quicker than before?

Corinthian · Mar 05, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

I think a lot of people think it's useless just because it got a little harder to do, and don't want to even bother with it. It's still a viable build. They read the updates, get discouraged, and never try IWAY again.

Lorien of Mandos · Mar 05, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Don't forget the changes that indirectly nerfed IWAY as well:

Shadow of Fear, Enfeebling Blood, Ineptitude, etc etc - a good nec/me or mes/nec can practically solo an entire IWAY team now with the proper skillbar.

I do agree, however, that it still can be done but will take a lot more coordination. Random IWAY PUGs don't stand much of a chance anymore, but with vent or ts and ppl that understand the strategy involved, you can probably still win consistently with the build. The thing with this build, though, is that while yes it does take some skill to execute well, it doesn't take much. There is no room in this build for on-the-fly changes to team strategy as you can have with a good balanced build, with IWAY you have one option on strategy - roll over the other team with melee damage - if this fails, you cannot change your approach and its 'gg.'

Ristaron · Mar 05, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

/applauds ANet for finally doing something about this outrageously abused build

still useable, but with more coordination. That's the way to do it.

General Typhus · Mar 05, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

Iway got nerfed bad.
Dust trap, mantra of resolve-trapper nerf
Order of vamp-major nec nerf
Iway, evicerate-warrior nerf

Not that most of the easily abusable moves are nerfed, does iway take skill to run? I saw a dramtically decreased amount of iway grouops after the nerf. Is it because iway now needs to coordinate its evicerate and atks instead of randomly whacking things like a moron that some people shy away? Is it that trappers cant just trap whenever they want cuz mantra runs thru their eneregy much quicker than before?

Held hall's with it for 3 rounds the day after the nerf. Still viable, just less common.

tafy69 · Mar 06, 2006, 07:03 AM // 07:03

IWAY should be easily beaten by a bunch of R0 newbies to HA now. Aslong they got a decent Curse necro.

The main nerf to IWAY the poster didnt post about....

HoD Helm Nerf
Attack Speed debuffs from 33% to 50%

Couple Shadow of fears flying around, add enfeebling blood just to give the IWAYers a kick in the balls and 2 of your monks can go on a coffee break.

RIP IWAY

apocalypse_xx · Mar 06, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

IWAY always took skill---at least if you wanted to win consistently, I may be new to PVP, but it took me 2 seconds to realize when looking at the build, that even an IWAY warrior should not go hacking and slashing at a trapper team...and yet, how many groups have I been on where that is exactly what happens. One thing I have learned very quickly is this, no matter what build you run, you need skill to be competitive on a consistent basis---any build can beat any non-skilled build on any given day, all I believe that has happened with the update is that there is less room for non-skilled players who think they can play IWAY and win

EDIT-I compare this to the famous AOE nerf that everyone said killed solo monks in UW---what a joke, I still solo UW with relative ease, it takes me 40 mins. give or take a couple minutes---Point is this, so what, IWAY took a nerf, how about looking at your team and make a few changes, it is still a very solid build, thus the rank 9+ groups out there still running it

Oh Ya---anyone ever heard of condition and hex removal??? Am I missing something or does IWAY HAVE to be the exact same build every time...hmmmmm?????

xiv · Mar 06, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

well its not entirely nerfed its still runnable just needs "modifications" modded iway isn't affected as much. we ran it last night wona few then tried out a new build lol. im bored with iway too eh boring.

JR · Mar 06, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalypse_xx

IWAY always took skill---at least if you wanted to win consistently, I may be new to PVP, but it took me 2 seconds to realize when looking at the build, that even an IWAY warrior should not go hacking and slashing at a trapper team...and yet, how many groups have I been on where that is exactly what happens. One thing I have learned very quickly is this, no matter what build you run, you need skill to be competitive on a consistent basis---any build can beat any non-skilled build on any given day, all I believe that has happened with the update is that there is less room for non-skilled players who think they can play IWAY and win

There is a difference between 'skill' and common sense.

apocalypse_xx · Mar 06, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

There is a difference between 'skill' and common sense.

True there is...so I ask if I may, since I am trying to learn PVP, what is the definition of skill in regards to non-IWAY teams having in order to win?

SaintGreg · Mar 06, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Its quite refreshing to go on an hoh run and never fight a single IWAY team. Now we get to fight 8 of the same type of average balanced build

JR · Mar 06, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalypse_xx

True there is...so I ask if I may, since I am trying to learn PVP, what is the definition of skill in regards to non-IWAY teams having in order to win?

I think a large part of "skill" comes down to understanding. Not just knowing the build you are running, and how to operate your character. Knowing how your build as a whole works together, and what it is capable of, including viable game plans. Just as importantly; learning to recognise what you are playing against, how it is played, and it's strong and weak points. From this you can formulate the tactics and strategies that you can use to your advantage given what you know. Learning to adapt to unexpected situations quickly and decisively.

A lot of people seem to run a build and just play it the same way every time, no matter what they are facing. And upon losing, they just assume the other team had a better build, or a build that somehow countered theirs. When infact they were simply out-played, not out-built.

apocalypse_xx · Mar 06, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I think a large part of "skill" comes down to understanding. Not just knowing the build you are running, and how to operate your character. Knowing how your build as a whole works together, and what it is capable of, including viable game plans. Just as importantly; learning to recognise what you are playing against, how it is played, and it's strong and weak points. From this you can formulate the tactics and strategies that you can use to your advantage given what you know. Learning to adapt to unexpected situations quickly and decisively.

A lot of people seem to run a build and just play it the same way every time, no matter what they are facing. And upon losing, they just assume the other team had a better build, or a build that somehow countered theirs. When infact they were simply out-played, not out-built.

Wow, thank you very much...not saying that I know how to do this, because i don't yet, but I am certainly impressed how well you spelled out for all of us who are interested in learning PVP...now if only I could find some people who understand this to group up with.

Fantus · Mar 06, 2006, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintGreg

Its quite refreshing to go on an hoh run and never fight a single IWAY team. Now we get to fight 8 of the same type of average balanced build

LOL - I had the very same thought. Now, at least 50% of all teams out there are Dualsurge. The rest is some varation of Ranger/Bloodspike. Oh, yes and the occassional IWAY is still there. Dualsurge was slowly killing IWAY usage even before the update, the update was only accelerating it, I think.

The Noble Savage · Mar 07, 2006, 06:58 AM // 06:58

iway wasnt nerfed bad at all. 1 adren for evis....still 1 order....trappers still got NR!!

tafy69 · Mar 07, 2006, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Noble Savage

iway wasnt nerfed bad at all. 1 adren for evis....still 1 order....trappers still got NR!!

lol

You forgot the bug fixes didnt you

Attack speed debuffs 33% > 50%
Hod helm 50% >20%
Attack Speed Buffs 50% > 33%

That alone killed IWAY, all the other things are just icing on the cake

blocparty · Mar 07, 2006, 07:13 AM // 07:13

iway didnt get nerfed noobs did

Maxiemonster · Mar 07, 2006, 09:39 AM // 09:39

It didn't got nerfed as bad as it should've been nerfed, but at least noobish PUG's spamming "R3+ IWAY WARRIORS NEEEDED!!!1" won't get to Halls that often. Organised guild groups can still win Halls with this build though.

Poison Ivy · Mar 07, 2006, 09:51 AM // 09:51

I just hoped they do something about the "Rank" thing.

I've unlocked everything in the game and well on my way to gaining enough Plats for not one, but two sets of Fow armor, yet my rank is only 1. To make matters worse, it's impossible to find a team in Hero's due to the high demand on rank, and yet most blind bastards won't accept you untill they see that stupid raindeer or Fow armor.

They should creat a feature that can easily show your the amount of Faction you have, that way, you can prove to them their the noobs

.

wheel · Mar 07, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Let's see all the changes that happened that adversely affect IWAY:

Orders not stacking
Eviscerate nerf
Lieutenant's Helm nerf
IWAY reduction in attack speed
attack speed not stacking beyond 33%
heal party recharge of 2 seconds, making heal party spamming take 2x as long after eoe goes off.

Iway was nerfed heavily, to the point of being a very awkward build to run. it will still kill unprepared teams, certainly, but in tombs, it's not nearly as viable.

As for requiring skill, yes, it requires some amount of skill to be successful with. I'm not saying that IWAY players are skilled, merely that IWAY takes skill to run. At any rate, this thread is going nowhere.